Tuesday, 26 October 2010

Demos meets 9/11 Truth

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Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites!......who have left undone the weightier matters of the Law.......Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but swallow the camel.

Matthew 23

A graduate student at Goldsmith's College, London is (apparently) studying the 9/11 Truth movement as part of earning his Ph.D.

The 'think-tank' Demos recently published a paper "The Power of Unreason" in which they basically trashed 'conspiracy theories' and offered suggestions as to how to deal with the irrational and sometimes dangerous people who believe them.

Demos and the 9/11 'Keep Talking' group accepted an invitation to a meeting that was held at Goldsmith's College last night.

Having read the Demos article, I was puzzled why a 9/11 group would even want to meet anyone associated with such a 'think tank'.

These people cannot possibly acknowledge any truth whatsoever in the very serious allegations we make against 'government' (and all who sail in her).

They just can't.

They know that if they collectively were to admit that the collapse of Building 7, say, really did look like a 'controlled demolition' (which it so obviously does) then Demos would quickly become an ex-'think tank'.

Any individual bold enough to openly express such a thought in public would be out on his over-educated ear.

For a start.

Because to admit such a thing would be, inevitably, to admit everything.......

.......the 'false flag' template, the 'War on Terror' fraud, the fact that there is a 'shadow government' directing our affairs and that elected politicians are, like ourselves, impotent drudges who do their masters' bidding.

Anyway, I turned up half an hour early hoping to meet the 9/11ers and convince them not to engage with these people at all. We know what they're about. They are insulting us to begin with (note the word 'unreason') and trying to find a way to restrict the growing influence of groups like our own on mainstream thinking.

Genies have been flying out of their bottles and it is the task of people like Demos to manage and subdue dangerous ideas and invent strategies and a plausible language that can be adopted by the political class in order to restore our trust in the authority of the state.

They are professional liars.

Unfortunately, not that the others would have necessarily agreed with me anyway, the room was full and the meeting about to start when I arrived.

The authors of the report, Jamie Bartlett and Carl Miller were present. Obviously Oxbridge graduates, these were two very clever young men, demonstrating an extraordinarily sophisticated vocabulary. I'm sure I heard Miller utter a forty-two syllable sentence containing only seven words.

Their opening speil, from Bartlett (who looked like a young, but fashionably tousled, Lord Carlisle), emphasised the "genuine independence" of Demos. Apparently Demos advises Labour, Conservative AND The Liberal Democrats. Now there's independence.

I could not resist the impulse to interrupt and challenge Bartlett's concept of independence at that point, which raised a mouthful of angry abuse from a Demos supporter at the other side of the room.

....and the tone was set for the evening.

The 9/11 Truth contingent stood up for the cause well. Suffice it to say that the evening was not a one-sided affair. Some of us did not behave as if we were grateful to be in the presence of these young Lords.

Although the two whizz-kids were given the prominence of the floor, Miller complained bitterly at the end about the chairs 'one-sided' management of the meeting.

That was satisfactory enough for me.

It would have been horrible if the evening had been 'cosy'.




Jamie Bartlett, the very nice and meticulously honest young gentleman from Demos who has failed to post comments at the end of this thread.

33 comments:

  1. It's these elite types who support the most vile systems on the planet, so long as they are suitably rewarded and their massive egos are constantly massaged. They will rationalise the incineration of millions as part of whatever policy they are employed to promote. For them honour and humanity are irrelevancies, power and wealth everything.

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  2. hmmm...I know Miller is a jewish name...and Bartlett probably has a hard time standing up straight with that hooter attached to his face.
    Ya don't think?....nah...couldn't be a "conspiracy"...this DEMOS

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  3. I have attended two 9/11 keeptalking meetings. However, between the last meeting and last nights Goldsmith Collage meeting, I have departed the 9/11 Keeptalking group on bad terms. The group is led by Ian Fantom. He gave a presentation at my last meeting. Ian and several others thought that meeting the Demos Crew would be a good idea. I believe this was a huge mistake, I pointed out in several emails to the group, that Demos would use NEW language and terms and this would confuse our line of attack. I am not surprised that Demos dominated the proceedings.

    In one of these emails, I openly accused Ian of working for the other side and from what I have read above, this confirms this view.

    This Demos report actually spells out a policy for CREATING TERRORISM. They want "open infiltration" into the truth movement...they want this open infiltration to disaffect members of the truth movement, they by fostering/fermenting extremism and violence, leading to acts of terror.

    Of course, Demos is openly encouraging terrorism...of course, members of the truth movement are trying to expose elite NWO criminals who commit/sanction heinous acts of violence and terror. The Demos policy recommendation prepares the ground for false flag acts of terror TO BE committed in the name of 9/11 and 7/7 truth.

    Truther`s are not violent people. They are succeeding, in fact, the tsunami of truth is now staggering and just as the designed financial collapse has been exposed, we are now near the tipping point and this is why Demos is desperate to dump honest truthseekers in the terrorist club.

    If any 9/11 keeptalking members reads this, they should seriously question Ian Fantom`s motives.

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  4. I forgot to point out that 9/11 and 7/7 are not conspiracy theories...they are un-investigated criminal conspiracies.

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  5. Peace Ideas

    People would be more willing and less fearful of adopting the views of 911 Truth activists if they felt they were calling for forgiveness rather than retribution and punishment.

    The peace movement should call for granting amnesty from prosecution and guarantee of an ample, lifetime pension to anyone who agrees to testify on their roles in the events of 9/11, extending this offer to any members of the US government, foreign governments and/or terrorist groups involved in the planning or execution of the attacks of that day.

    Additionally, individuals should step forward and volunteer to spend time working with those who give testimony on crimes they have committed so that they might be reintegrated into society.
    Instead of executing Nazi war criminals we should have devoted all the human resources available to us to rehabilitating them, awakening in them awareness of the nature of their actions so that they could have come to understand that they must make amends. If they had remained alive they would have been a living testament to the transformative powers of forgiveness.

    Historians and psychologists especially should come out in favor of preserving invaluable study material in the form of the opportunity to converse with the authors of unfortunate historical deeds.

    We must find a solution to the existing state of affairs that would be acceptable to both the accusers and the accused. It should solve the problem it sets out to solve without creating additional problems. It should present itself as an ethical means to an ethical end.

    In “The Art of War”, Sun Tzu said never to surround an enemy. If you do not leave him an out, he will fight to the last man.

    For an interesting discussion of these ideas, see the comments to this article: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joseph_s_070414_a_9_2f11__22smoking_gun_22.htm

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  6. CJ,

    Fair enough on most of your points and I would tend to agree.....but, from my experience of him, I do not believe that Ian Fantom is anything other than an absolutely honest man.

    It is surely possible to just differ in opinion within 9/11 Truth movement. It is also possible for persons to be occasionally wrong, though we don't realise it at the time.

    I would hesitate before making such an accusation against anyone and actually....

    Demos did not dominate the proceedings. I thought that was the message of this blog post.

    The two Demos reps sat at the front of the room beside Ian, who tried his best, in my opinion, to be a fair chairperson for the meeting. Others (i.e. one of the Demos guys) disagreed loudly (at the end of the meeting after they took a bit of rough treatment from persons on the floor).

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  7. Anonymous 17:11,

    You're quite right about the forgiveness thing. An end to this kind of evil is more important than finding and punishing all of the perps. Most are cogs in a wheel, ex-military types etc. who probably think they are doing dirty but necessary work for UK PLC.

    Not so sure about the masterminds, the big-time shitbags, though.

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  8. The meeting appeared to be a training exercise for DEMOS with the 911 group as an example of what to expect and how to spin doctor around the questions which might arise. Jamie Bartlett later admitted that there were "around ten" Demos employees in the audience. Having seen the amount taking notes and asking questions or making points. The event was filmed yet some of the most interesting questioners were not filmed(the event was meant to be streamed but my informatioin was that it was not watchable. Would be interested to see in anyone else saw it.) It was later found out that DEMOS did NOT fund the paper, so who did? After being quizzed on basic points of fact regarding 9 11 Jamie Bartlet answered as he had done all evening, with spin and well rehearsed soundbites. When it was suggested he was avoiding the questions he changed tack and said he wanted to interact with us and then stated he had worked for Islamic Relief in both Pakistan and Afghanistan. We have some other writers contributing on this at www.landofthefree.co.uk. In the meantime we have put the link to this article in our news section.

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  9. As I said, I have attended two 9/11 keeptalking meetings. However, the last one was a small cosy affair with Ian giving his presentation. Ian may well have his heart in the right place, but like a Premiership football manager... only results matter! Everyone needs to feel they are part of the team. I won`t go into the detail, but Ian did all he could to push me away..this is the last thing that anyone should be doing to people who want to be involved.

    As to this forgivemess thing, I think you are being naive. Sure, there maybe be some fringe players who were NAIVE...who did not understand their willing role and are now sitting it out...but all these people are known...as soon as you start getting into a position to set conditions, such as "forgiveness"..confess and we`ll give you an easy time. YOU will unleash a tsunami of death and evidence destruction. Just like jumping bankers and dead billionaires. This goes all the way to the top...you know, that place where virtually no one goes.

    I read about a guy who was blown onto the Aldgate tube line...he was just a few feet from the bomber, yet all he got was a bone splinter in his eye..he lost his eye, but just imagine if he had not lost his eye and survived completely unmarked?? This is what he said...(behind him) "there was an intense white light"...the fact that he could remember this, means that it existed for a "second" before he was blown from the train...this is not a conventional high explosive..or some homemade chemical brew and this white light was seen in Jakarta and at the Taba Hilton. At the Jakarta Australian Embassy attack, two locals were very close to the point of detonation, but they survived the blast almost untouched.

    If you want forgivenes, so you feel better, then you are really letting the people at the top to escape, because they are good friends, they go to the lodge and Bilderberg meetings...a line will be drawn and that is where you will stop..dead..in more ways than one.

    BTW, I liked the people at 9/11 keeptalking and I hardly know them or Ian. But there comes a point when you must speak out and say it as you see it.

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  10. Hi Kev,

    The Fire Service action is critical. If TPTB suceed in this, I fear the future will be violent.

    I am coming to the conclusion that we need to think about the same strategy that was used in 1919 in Ireland. We need our own parliament, local structures and local commerce to break the stranglehold of the criminal bankers.

    I read your DEMOS blog with interest and I am keenly aware that there are differing opinions (CJ) however I am under no illusions that ALL movements are infilrated. The key is to stick to the truth and only the truth. Those who seek to dilute the truth 'illuminate' their true self.

    This current government are conspicious by their lack of humanity and the very very obvious division between the views of the Liberal leadership and the core memebership.

    The rot has to stop some day, now is perhaps that day.

    I would be interested in your thoughts.

    Regards

    Jim

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  11. Hey Kevin,...Here in rosthchalia we had an "Afghanistan Debate" in Parliament just last week: Saturation publicity, much faux anticipation by the media celebrities that read the scripts at 6 o'clock - it was a shill fest from the get go. Our only 'debate' on 9/11 was held on the Government owned ABC's 'Forum' style current affairs show: The host of the show is the Labour apparatchik that won john 'The Traitor' howard’s formerly secure conservative seat, in the election that Rudd won. So, as you can imagine no democratic process there.

    As for amnesties and pensions, so as not to stymie elective participation in a cosy people’s court. No way. The rule of law that’s the only deal on the table, with ALL people equally. They have committed a multitude of heinous crimes and they should pay, period. Remember, those people in the buildings, remember those people on the train stations, remember the little children crushed and burned in Gaza and remember the families of Fallujah! Etc, etc etc...ad infintum.

    Weakness is just weakness and mincing about uttering platitudes and offers of amnesty like quivering upper lipped do-gooders at a tax-credit charity dinner to the thugs standing over us, is a joke and they will just laugh and love it; the monsters that orchestrate the horror and their stooges like those two toss-pot rich-kids you mentioned do not operate fairly; why offer these bastards anything but the scales and the sword?

    “That’s mutiny Mr. Christian!”

    “You’re damned right; now get your arse into that little boat!”

    Lest we forget...

    love light & peace - for those that deserve it!

    veritas

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  12. Hi Jim,

    I don't understand fully the details of the dispute.

    The government seem to be imposing new contracts on firemen altering their conditions of service.

    Are you saying if they succeed in this they will roll similar terms over the whole public sector and people, having seen the previous outcome of attempted industrial action, will start resorting to violence as a first option?

    .....or that the firemen and their supporters will kick off massive clashes between workers who see themselves losing everything and the new Con/LibDem police state?

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  13. Hello everyone - it is Jamie Bartlett here. 'Kev' - would you permit me the right to reply to some of this nonsense?

    As soon as I receive the DVD of the event, I will send it to everyone who would like to see it, as I think it will clearly demonstrate quite how 'fair' Ian was as a chair.

    As for the anonymous contributor at 18:20 - that really is pathetic. I recall who you were, and we were having what I thought was an amicable, open discussion over a pint in the pub afterwards. I am extremely disappointed that you pretended to be interested about my background prior to Demos, when in fact you were just collecting notes for your blog. I really did not expect such cynical double-dealing - shame on you!

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  14. Let's not forget who. 9/11 and Israel, here:
    www.iuniverse.com/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-000190526

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  15. I'll tell you one thing. If I ever see the "offical fairy tale" tried to be taught to my children as "history", I will stand up for the TRUTH. These lying, filthy traitors will KNOW that many people have fiqured out the truth.

    http://northerntruthseeker.blogspot.com/2010/09/israel-did-9-11-all-proof-in-world.html

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  16. Kev,

    Thanks for your comments at 17:26. I think you should know that Carl Jones attended one of our meetings, not two. Amongst other things, he was boasting of being thrown out of various other groups, and he was giving us good reason for throwing him out of ours, too. But we didn't, until he virtually banned himself by his own abusive messages and then declaring he was leaving.

    Bear in mind, that whenever someone makes an allegation against another person, until he has attempted to substantiate that allegation there has to be a 50% probability that what he says of others may be true of himself.

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  17. Anonymous (26 October 2010 17:03) said:

    "Peace Ideas"

    "People would be more willing and less fearful of adopting the views of 911 Truth activists if they felt they were calling for forgiveness rather than retribution and punishment."

    I did actually write an open letter to Sir Richard Dearlove, former head of MI6, following his lecture to the London School of Economics, putting forward the idea of a South-African style Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Not everyone agreed with that, but I do think it needs to be put out as an idea.

    I, too, have read “The Art of War” by Sun Tzu, and I found it a really useful book to study before joining a Management Committee with difficult people on it. I had no idea at the time what I was actually walking into, and how relevant the book would turn out to be.

    You are right: it said never to surround an enemy. If you do not leave him an out, he will fight to the last man.

    We need to find a way out for the lower minions, who really would have had no idea what they were going into when they started, but are horrified to see the bigger picture.

    If someone were to say to me: "Yes, I did join your committee in order to undermine it, and I regret that now, because I had no idea that I was just a tiny cog in a huge wheel. I don't want to be part of a Nazi state, so I quite", I'd say "Well done for your courage. I hope you aren't in personal danger", or some such thing.

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  18. Jamie here - I just posted something, which appears that Kev may have deleted. Can you put it back up - or will you delete it again?

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  19. Hi Kev,

    The Fire Service dispute and the means used by the employer to address the issue is repugnant. Dismissal notices as a means of negotiation drag us back to the 19th century and must be confronted.

    Apologies for being off topic here however I feel this issue is another example of how TPTB operate and this nonsensical attempt by DEMOS to attack the messenger as a means to distract from self evident truths is a tired old strategy that will plainly not work anymore.

    Mr Bartlett and co appear to be intelligent people. One might reasonably expect them to have the ability to investigate issues and decide for themselves. If this is not the case, then they are being misguided by someone OR working to an agenda contrary to the truth OR they suffer from the modern disease of accepting so called facts without question, just like journalists who have the audacity to promote facts from 'unnamed sources' or the ubiquitious 'senior official'. It's laziness, pure and simple but encouraged by the media and the like as acceptable professional behaviour.

    "Let the truth be known though the heavens fall"

    Regards

    Jim

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  20. Puzzling comment from Jamie (Demos) above,

    Please post again. I only delete seriously offensive statements, obvious nonsense put up to discredit a discussion and obnoxious personal abuse.

    It normally takes me some time, by the way, to even notice these comments that have been made as all comments ALWAYS go straight onto the thread.

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  21. Ian, what does this mean?

    "If someone were to say to me: "Yes, I did join your committee in order to undermine it, and I regret that now, because I had no idea that I was just a tiny cog in a huge wheel. I don't want to be part of a Nazi state, so I quite", I'd say "Well done for your courage. I hope you aren't in personal danger", or some such thing".

    "IF" and I do mean "IF" this is targeted at me, I did not join 9/11 keeptalking to undermine it. You have done more to undermine it by meeting with Demos and this idea about not surrounding the enemy..we could surround the the enemy if we tried..who is the "enemy"? Modern psychiatry is very busy putting us in the nut house, we are a step away from Starlin`s Russia.

    From certain perspectives I am a tiny cog, but in others, I am a huge cog, because I see failure writ all over the truth movement. You might be rocking the boat on some levels, but you have failed to engage the public. In another 10 years, the most informed and brightest truthers will start dying off. Will 9/11 become another JFK..looks like it to me.

    "Personal danger"? Know something I don`t?lol If I had a pound for every person who said I was as risk, or they will get you, I`d be very rich. I will continue.

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  22. You see, the truth movement is very one dimentional, You/they simply don`t see our multifaceted enemy with its multi-front battle policy; weather system manipulation, natural event targeting, resource control (inc food), designed financial collapse, destruction of notional wealth, the destruction of weak democracies, socialisation of debt and our debt enslavement, constant war, constant threat development and fear. Then we have the war on terror. Yes, the truth movement has been derailed and shunted into a siding, and soon, the dedicated 9/11 and 7/7ners will hit the buffers when THEY pull off the next big false flag terror attack!!

    In an email to 9/11 keeptalking, I suggested a move into politics. Form a political party who`s sole purpose is to remove party politics and change the democratic system..no political parties, just independents. The time is ripe for this, the people are totally hacked off and at the next election when the nation will be on its knees. Instead of surrounding the enemy, we starve it to death. Want to talk to Demos and become a rubber stamped terrorist, carry on, you are heading in the right direction.

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  23. A political party has to have a clear set of policies that unify it CJ.

    A party of 'Independents' makes no sense.

    Even if you call it an 'Alliance' there must be some well-defined common ground on which to stand.

    The trouble with 9/11 'Truthers' is that 9/11 often seems to be all we agree about. The 'movement' has more-or-less split over the 'Israel' issue and the objection of many involved to even mention it. Some 'truthers' are 'New Age', some from the left, some old-style nationalists, UK independencers, BNP, some Christians.

    It's a hard thing to pull together.

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  24. No, this would be a political party with one policy. Get into power, run the country with no changes, accept to pass legislation that bans organised political parties, stops hidden lobbying, stops meetings on the golf course and meetings at the lodge. All meetings in public, apart from individual citizens discussing private issues. Get rid of General elections and introduce rolling elections for MP`s.

    All the fragmented groups you mention would surely go for a new system that breaks NWO control. This has nothing to do with anything that has gone before. This system will allow anyone to become an MP. It would suck in real talent, people who would normally shun party politics, would now become interested and the public would know that their local MP would be untainted by corporate interests. This is not to say that businesses cannot meet MP`s, they can, but it must be done in public. We need to get rid of dictators like Camoron & Clott who really represent the corporations and banks. Within 6 months of coming to power, we would bring in rolling elections where there would be no political parties, just independent MP`s and within months, our government would lose overall control and this would be a new start in policy development. Demos would be dead in the water. Because groups like Demos would not be allowed to contact MP`s via the phone, mail or email, apart from arranging a public meeting. This meeting would be advertised with two weeks notice, including attendees and subject. If the meeting is held in London, it should be videoed and put out for viewing.

    These groups that you mention, they need to grow up and take control. BTW, no public employee would be allowed to be a member of any secret society. The NWO is morphing and it is now when they are weak, that we should act. No cornering required, just cut them off. If we do this in the UK..others countries will follow.

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  25. Jamie again. I did indeed re-post a response, it went up and appears to have been taken back down again. Kev Boyle might be afraid of what it says and is unable to respond to it. So I'll put it on the Demos blog instead where we don't delete comments. Thanks.

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  26. Jamie,

    I shouldn't be shocked but I must admit I am.

    You are a liar. A flat-out liar.

    I told you to your face on Monday night while you spouted tired lies about 9/11 and I say it again now.

    You reveal your TRUE character as any 9/11 shill (I suppose)must do.

    I knew that you are too intelligent not to understand that 9/11 was an inside job.

    Until now I had given you the benefit of the little doubt I had about the issue. Made excuses for you in my own kind little heart....'the effects of a life under the unremitting onslaught of mainstream media lies...etc., etc'

    But you ARE a liar.

    And therefore a knowing supporter of the state-sponsored murder of 3000 Americans......and, presumably, 1000000+ Iraqis.

    Jamie, for all your sophistication and superficial good manners you are

    Beneath contempt.

    Say what you like on the Demos forum. I wouldn't touch that place with yours.

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  27. I like to ask Jamie Bartlett a few questions..of course, Mr Bartlett would need to do so under a lie detector test and the latest brain scanning technology and these are the questions.

    Were you ever approached at university by MI6, or any other Western intelligence agency (state or private)? Have work worked for any intelligence agency (paid/unpaid and includes penning articles)? Does Demos receive intelligence briefings? Did you get any help from British intelligence when writing your report?

    Of course, Mr Bartlett would never agree to the questions, or conditions.

    This is why I have concerns about some of the people who claim to be truthers. Most people can be made to turn.

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  28. Demos have the ugly fingerprints of the intelligence services all over them.
    They are indeed liars.
    Paid liars furthering a heinous, fascist agenda.
    I wonder what their grandchildren will make of them? If there remain any among their number who have even a shred of decency and probity left, I strongly urge them to start looking at the facts and considering a change of side while they may.
    The 'debate' such as it was, was laughable and as far as I could tell, pointless, although I hear you gave a good account of yourself Kev, and for that I salute you.
    A fact is a fact, no matter how much you try to manipulate it to your own ends or wish it were otherwise.
    The WTC towers fell at freefall speed.
    That is the only fact you need to prove conspiracy.

    Jonathan

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  29. Jonathan,

    Yes, and applying ideas in the year 11 physics syllabus makes an unanswerable case for controlled demolition of all three towers.

    It is truly a great scandal, a scandal beyond measure, that 650 UK parliamentarians have ALL failed to raise this issue in the House of Commons.

    Utterly shocking.

    They have sold the middle east into absolute ruin. 1 million+ Iraqis and Afghans and Pakistanis to their deaths, I million Russian to death from drug abuse (supplied from Afghanistan, our own soldiers into prosecuting shameful wars and our children into debt slavery to the criminals who carried out these monstrous crimes.

    They will be brought down.

    As John Perkins said, "change will only come from the bottom".

    Do not look to our leaders for character.

    They have all proven to be bankers whores.

    There is not a backbone in sight.

    .....and the USA is worse.

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  30. http://www.flickr.com/photos/47061292@N02/5149378369/in/photostream#

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